2018 PRESEASON HAHA

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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby abe froman » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:11 pm

Mart has won 2 in 1a(lowest level), 2 in the old 2a structure division 1 and 2 and now 2a division 1used to be 1a division 1. Not quite all levels. Hell Refugio has won in 3 seperate divisions. 1982 in 3a now 4a, 2a division 2 now 3a division 2 and 2a division 1. They even played in what is now 5a in 1968 against Lubbock Estacado when it was 3a but the second highest level.

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PurplePunch
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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby PurplePunch » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:10 am

Some observations from a long-time high school football fan. I’m not a Refugio fan, nor a Jason Herring fan. I’m not a Mart fan, nor a Kevin Hoffman fan, or a Rusty Nail fan. But those teams, year in and year out, have talent and use it. Their coaches don’t wait for that perfect combination of big, powerful linemen and quality backs and receivers to win a championship in their system. They match the best talent on their team in a given year to offensive and defensive schemes, and they learn what they need to know to teach the kids to be proficient in those schemes. Not all coaches can or will do those things.

Another observation: when those teams play a one-trick pony they scheme to stop what they do best on offense and take advantage of what they don’t do as well on defense. Other coaches, a la Vince Lombardi, believe they can do what they do so well the opponents can’t stop it. But when they focus on a powerful rushing attack and good defense, and your opponent stops the rushing attack, or they get up a couple of TDs, you have to throw the ball efficiently and effectively. The problem is, practice is structured so that 50-60% of practice is on defense, 30-40% on the primary (rushing) offense, and the rest on passing. That doesn’t develop the confidence, timing, and skills necessary to implement a sophisticated and effective modern passing attack against a quality opponent.

Sometimes it’s just about talent, and speed. When their backs hit a crease and clear the second level they turn on the jets and score, so you have to play error-free defense, don’t stay blocked, and the coach has to call a perfect game, guessing right based on tendencies, etc. But if you lack equivalent speed, even one misstep costs you defensively, and your offense doesn’t get the easy scores. It’s all relative - you may be able to impose your will on your whole schedule, win 11-12-13 games, and be more talented and faster than everyone you’ve played. But at some point you run into a Refugio, a Mart, a Canadian, a Shiner, a Stamford- is what you’re doing going to allow you to beat them? Maybe nothing you can do/have done is going to allow that to happen, but if you are an an elite team/wants to be an elite team whose goal is to win state, you prepare your team all year for that game. Not the teams you can manhandle, but the elite teams. And to know how you are progressing you have to play elite teams along the way. I’m confident Refugio’s games with Goliad, Edna, Navarro, Mart’s game with Lexington, Shiner’s with Halletsville, etc, helped them prepare, and helped their opponents prepare.

It’s a shame that “records” mean so much that quality schools in 3A don’t want to play quality 2A schools because they may lose, even though before Divisions they were in the same district. In a state tournament system like this your record before the playoffs start is irrelevant, thus teams (like Cameron a few years ago) lose several games to quality schools but win state. Steel sharpens steel. I hope the 2018 realignment helps.

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BIG C FAN
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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby BIG C FAN » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:40 pm

I agree with a lot of the stuff being said , but I do believe that a team that can win the battle in the trenches will win 80 percent of the time! Also if you have a defense it will be the reason you win the championships that are won in most cases. And I also believe a team will have to have some kind of running game to win it all !That's the reason I said earlier in the year that Refugio won't win state without a running game ! Anyway I am real excited to see what 2018 will be like once football start up again ! Have a Happy New Year to all!

GO BIG C!

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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby uncle » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:03 pm

PurplePunch wrote:Some observations from a long-time high school football fan. I’m not a Refugio fan, nor a Jason Herring fan. I’m not a Mart fan, nor a Kevin Hoffman fan, or a Rusty Nail fan. But those teams, year in and year out, have talent and use it. Their coaches don’t wait for that perfect combination of big, powerful linemen and quality backs and receivers to win a championship in their system. They match the best talent on their team in a given year to offensive and defensive schemes, and they learn what they need to know to teach the kids to be proficient in those schemes. Not all coaches can or will do those things.

Another observation: when those teams play a one-trick pony they scheme to stop what they do best on offense and take advantage of what they don’t do as well on defense. Other coaches, a la Vince Lombardi, believe they can do what they do so well the opponents can’t stop it. But when they focus on a powerful rushing attack and good defense, and your opponent stops the rushing attack, or they get up a couple of TDs, you have to throw the ball efficiently and effectively. The problem is, practice is structured so that 50-60% of practice is on defense, 30-40% on the primary (rushing) offense, and the rest on passing. That doesn’t develop the confidence, timing, and skills necessary to implement a sophisticated and effective modern passing attack against a quality opponent.

Sometimes it’s just about talent, and speed. When their backs hit a crease and clear the second level they turn on the jets and score, so you have to play error-free defense, don’t stay blocked, and the coach has to call a perfect game, guessing right based on tendencies, etc. But if you lack equivalent speed, even one misstep costs you defensively, and your offense doesn’t get the easy scores. It’s all relative - you may be able to impose your will on your whole schedule, win 11-12-13 games, and be more talented and faster than everyone you’ve played. But at some point you run into a Refugio, a Mart, a Canadian, a Shiner, a Stamford- is what you’re doing going to allow you to beat them? Maybe nothing you can do/have done is going to allow that to happen, but if you are an an elite team/wants to be an elite team whose goal is to win state, you prepare your team all year for that game. Not the teams you can manhandle, but the elite teams. And to know how you are progressing you have to play elite teams along the way. I’m confident Refugio’s games with Goliad, Edna, Navarro, Mart’s game with Lexington, Shiner’s with Halletsville, etc, helped them prepare, and helped their opponents prepare.

It’s a shame that “records” mean so much that quality schools in 3A don’t want to play quality 2A schools because they may lose, even though before Divisions they were in the same district. In a state tournament system like this your record before the playoffs start is irrelevant, thus teams (like Cameron a few years ago) lose several games to quality schools but win state. Steel sharpens steel. I hope the 2018 realignment helps.

Much of what u say has Merit! Good observation

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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby Mahir » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:51 am

Bigtank no one said those schools arent good. Refugio is just amazing in their consistent success. Oh and for that matter they have won 1982 what now would be 4A when only one champ was crowned. They have won in what would be 3A now and have won in 2A. My whole point is Refugio fascinates people. Heck they monopolize forums by those that love and hate them. No offense but Shiner just has never gotten this kind of attention. Running up the score and hurricane got them on HBO and ESPN they are just interesting and its good because it gets people interested in small town football. Refugio isnt even close to top schools with titles but heck neither is a school like Odessa Permian but hmmm there was a little book and movie made about them maybe you heard of it.

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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby BIG C FAN » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:45 am

yes I agree with your projection of Refugio ,but I don't think many schools want the label that Refugio has! Take one example of a game that ESPN aired where Refugio was running up the score on another team and the coach says [Go for the throat ! ] Just not the way I want any of my children or grandchildren growing up around!


GO BIG C !

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4Gata
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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby 4Gata » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:22 am

Really, this again...... new year, same old same.

Happy New Year football fans.

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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby Windthorstfan » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:21 pm

abe froman wrote:Mart has won 2 in 1a(lowest level), 2 in the old 2a structure division 1 and 2 and now 2a division 1used to be 1a division 1. Not quite all levels. Hell Refugio has won in 3 seperate divisions. 1982 in 3a now 4a, 2a division 2 now 3a division 2 and 2a division 1. They even played in what is now 5a in 1968 against Lubbock Estacado when it was 3a but the second highest level.

I kid, I kid, but sure will be glad when Refugio are playing 6-man and win that division!!!

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Football Face
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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby Football Face » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:54 pm

BIG C FAN wrote:I agree with a lot of the stuff being said , but I do believe that a team that can win the battle in the trenches will win 80 percent of the time! Also if you have a defense it will be the reason you win the championships that are won in most cases. And I also believe a team will have to have some kind of running game to win it all !That's the reason I said earlier in the year that Refugio won't win state without a running game ! Anyway I am real excited to see what 2018 will be like once football start up again ! Have a Happy New Year to all!

GO BIG C!


Gotta agree here. It is won and lost in the trenches ..... period.

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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby bigtank05 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:33 pm

Mahir wrote:Bigtank no one said those schools arent good. Refugio is just amazing in their consistent success. Oh and for that matter they have won 1982 what now would be 4A when only one champ was crowned. They have won in what would be 3A now and have won in 2A. My whole point is Refugio fascinates people. Heck they monopolize forums by those that love and hate them. No offense but Shiner just has never gotten this kind of attention. Running up the score and hurricane got them on HBO and ESPN they are just interesting and its good because it gets people interested in small town football. Refugio isnt even close to top schools with titles but heck neither is a school like Odessa Permian but hmmm there was a little book and movie made about them maybe you heard of it.


And you don't knowbwhat goes on in mart Texas also. 2 championships from tying the record of I with Celina. It's been talked about a movie of mart football also. The running back from cy-fair 6a. #43 full blood mart panther. Don't care how we won it we won it lol.

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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby Mahir » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:58 pm

Bigtank your post made no sense. I never was comparing how many titles a team has. Im sure katy or aledo or lake travis will get to 9 titles before refugio gets to 5 even. Point is Refugio has been alot of fun and Herring is amazing guy that loves the kids helps the community and really is like a father figure to these kids. Harsh criticism against Herring and Refugio is undeserved. I am not even from Refugio once again. They are just more interesting than the rest. Its not even about titles. Its the change of scheme every year and such great storylines that make them fun. Hate to say this but gonnn say it anyways alot of the posters on here are just jealous of them and it really shows in their posts. Im sure 2018 will be full of fans like myself and extreme haters as usual. Win or lose next year I can guarantee Refugio will be most talked about team in 2A football period! !!

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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby bigtank05 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:42 pm

Mahir wrote:Bigtank your post made no sense. I never was comparing how many titles a team has. Im sure katy or aledo or lake travis will get to 9 titles before refugio gets to 5 even. Point is Refugio has been alot of fun and Herring is amazing guy that loves the kids helps the community and really is like a father figure to these kids. Harsh criticism against Herring and Refugio is undeserved. I am not even from Refugio once again. They are just more interesting than the rest. Its not even about titles. Its the change of scheme every year and such great storylines that make them fun. Hate to say this but gonnn say it anyways alot of the posters on here are just jealous of them and it really shows in their posts. Im sure 2018 will be full of fans like myself and extreme haters as usual. Win or lose next year I can guarantee Refugio will be most talked about team in 2A football period! !!


Herring has always been one of my favorite coaches. Never talked about his way of coaching. His job is for his kids to be prepared to plays 4 quarters of football. He is a winner in my book.

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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby Mahir » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:55 pm

Even in losses in state Cisco Canadian Mart i think hes respectful. Sad for his players but also realizes the other team worked very hard too.

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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby 4Gata » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:22 am


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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby Windthorstfan » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:47 am

4Gata wrote:https://www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/2018/jan/16/refugios-kelley-decides-to-concentrate-on-baseball/

Will be interesting to see if he sticks to that....

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PurplePunch
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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby PurplePunch » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:44 pm

abe froman wrote:Refugio will be a lot like the 2013 team. Lost a bunch of the players that won state in 2011 and lost to a very good East Bernard team in 2012. However, the 2013 team returned a very good QB in Quintanilla and rode him to the state title game. I could see the 2018 team riding Kelly in much the same way. Also they return their best lineman in Brown and best LB/RB in Mascorro. Also JV was undefeated and I think 8th grade lost maybe once. The key will be the line play especially on offensive side and LB play besides Mascorro on defense. Refugio usually always finds good skill position people.

How much effect does Kelly picking baseball have? Who are the QB candidates now? The rest of the team is solid to exceptional.

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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby ComancheAlumni06 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:58 pm

Mahir wrote:Bigtank your post made no sense. I never was comparing how many titles a team has. Im sure katy or aledo or lake travis will get to 9 titles before refugio gets to 5 even. Point is Refugio has been alot of fun and Herring is amazing guy that loves the kids helps the community and really is like a father figure to these kids. Harsh criticism against Herring and Refugio is undeserved. I am not even from Refugio once again. They are just more interesting than the rest. Its not even about titles. Its the change of scheme every year and such great storylines that make them fun. Hate to say this but gonnn say it anyways alot of the posters on here are just jealous of them and it really shows in their posts. Im sure 2018 will be full of fans like myself and extreme haters as usual. Win or lose next year I can guarantee Refugio will be most talked about team in 2A football period! !!


Posters like you are just as much part of that. We get it, they’re gonna be talked about because their flashy. But please quit rubbing it in everyone’s face and call everyone else’s team boring while you do it! That’s not very classy dude. I know you won’t agree with me. But it’s really not.

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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby ComancheAlumni06 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:04 pm

Here’s the best example Mahir, Shiner is like the Spurs, boring, not flashy but yet successful. Refugio are like the showtime Lakers. Flashy, talks a big game, draws attention. But not always good attention. Meanwhile no one cares about what’s going on in San Antonio because that’s boring. They’re too quiet. Same as Shiner. Some towns like it that way, Shiner is one of them. So good for Refugio if they like all that attention.

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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby Mahir » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:52 pm

I think the spurs would love to get the fame of the Lakers. Say what you want HS players love to get attention just as towns do. newspapers Espn Hbo im sure most towns would love this attention. And LOL Shiner loves the attention the town receives from their beer. These lil towns in the middle of nowhere like to be noticed too.

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ComancheAlumni06
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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby ComancheAlumni06 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:51 pm

Your right about that, I love that my home town makes good beer! I’ve got nothing against Refugio receiving the attention. I’m just saying not all small towns care about all that Jazz.

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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby Mahir » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:28 pm

Btw i take pride in Texas and glad there is a town named Shiner and famous non related to football but because some REALLY good beer.

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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby ComancheAlumni06 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:02 pm

Hell yeah! Nothing finer than an ice cold Shiner!

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Re: 2018 PRESEASON HAHA

Postby Mahir » Sat May 26, 2018 5:53 pm

Anybody got any updates on their team? And why they should be top 10??


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